Newsvine User Deleting Comments; No Action By Newsvine Moderators Tyler or Sally

When is the last time you got a response from Newsvine? I'm beginning to wonder if you've been blacklisted for some reason.

You could attempt to file a complaint with your local MSNBC office, I doubt it would do any good, but the link here shows where they are located.

Someone at one of them might be able to tell you who you would need to speak with, you never know, someone just might listen to you.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27773775/

The last response I got from Tyler was on 5/5/2011

Try Sally then. See if Vicki knows something. Lots of things to try.

This reminds me of a period I went through a while back. I couldn't get a reply out of Tyler for like 5+ month stretch. Then out of nowhere, everything was normal again.

Still don't know what the deal was. Probably Newsvine's crappy Windows backend eating email.

Just as an FYI, I have more luck getting a response if I use the "report bug" feature, state my case in a sentence or two, tops...copy/paste the URL to the article/seed and reference the comment number in question. That way, they don't have to dig for the information I'm referring to.

Pat N:

Mark this down. The one vote (so far) on your comment is mine.

Mark this down. The one vote (so far) on your comment is mine.

Hell hath indeed, frozen over. =)

Oh my goodness. I think this article is about me!

In case anybody is interested in this, Tyler took away my "privileges" to delete comments for a week. He's just trying to do his job, and I am not here to complain about that. I guess he had to do something since he found the quality of my thread moderating not up to Newsvine standards.

I would like to point out that moderating a thread is not an easy thing to do. Some people on Newsvine devote their lives to walking right up to the CoH and mooning as many people as possible 24/7, while technically staying within the CoH bounds. You can find yourself looking at a thread and saying to yourself that it seems to have been hijacked somewhere along the way and asking if there is something you should be doing about that, like oh say, deleting a comment or two that seem to be where things went to hell.

Personally, I could do without the ability to delete comments. I really don't want to have to play traffic cop at all. Please don't ask me to police the bullying, and shades of gray with regard to comments being "off topic" and of "no value" and then punish me for getting it wrong. I'm not up to those finer judgment calls (not that it makes me a bad person) and would rather not have to worry about getting it wrong again.

Just take away my ability to delete comments permanently and you will never hear anyone (including me) complain about the subject again.

..but I have to wonder why you so ardently defend them even in the face of the information I have provided here.

Prophat247,

Tyler has done nothing since coming to work for Newsvine but earn my respect. That buys him the benefit of the doubt. I'd like to see what he has to say about it before jumping on the train you've been riding for several months.

The last few times you've made claims like this, most of them turned out to be without merit.

Right now, he has more credibility.

I REALLY doubt it.

…

From: Newsvine Mail [mailto:noreply@newsvine.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 11:11 PM
To: Tyler Adams (Volt)
Subject: Newsvine - Still with us?

Subject: Still with us?
Name: Paul William Tenny
Email: pwtenny@gmail.com

Message:
Tyler,

I've been trying to contact you for almost two weeks. Is there something wrong with your @newsvine email account?

PWT,

Yeah, there has been. I thought most everything's been restored, but we haven't been in touch since the Rhys/CiC flap, right?

I think it was a further three months before I started getting replies again. But communication has been fine since.

Tyler took away my "privileges" to delete comments for a week.

Ouch.

#1.12: Just take away my ability to delete comments permanently and you will never hear anyone (including me) complain about the subject again.

I think that may be overkill, but I sure as heck understand where you're coming from! That was a fantastic comment! I wish I could frame it!

Furthermore, if you think I "walk right up to the CoH and moon people",

Show of hands anyone?

Personal opinion? I'm far more guilty or walking right up to the CoH and mooning people than Prophat could ever think of being. Some of us are blunt. Others aren't quite so blunt. I'd put Prophat in the second category.

And for those of us who understand the CoH, we understand that bluntness is not a violation. You can indeed, "moon" from the far side of the CoH line as long as not a single hair on your ass crosses that line.

And for those of us who understand the CoH,

Sounds like you understand it with your head but not your heart.

Sounds like you understand it with your head but not your heart.

On the contrary. It's passion for a particular issue that drives one to walk up to that line but still exercise the restraint not to cross it.

When it comes to defending the very ideology that guides my day-to-day life or worrying about some internet strangers "feelings"...guess which one is going to win?

On the contrary. It's passion for a particular issue that drives one to walk up to that line but still exercise the restraint not to cross it.

The letter vs. the spirit of the CoH.

The letter vs. the spirit of the CoH.

Not following you. Expound, please?

Well, after stopping by to visit this article, looking at the article, appreciating how much time has been spent writing emails to management to the end of getting pigheaded comments restored, looking at the expansive length of the comments in this thread (like #1.16), I am beginning to understand why I've resorted to the "delete button":

Newsvine doesn't have a "strangle button."

Like I said, I could live without the ability to delete comments permanently.

I'd rather just feel powerless in the face of Newsvine's right wing trolls than feel I ever have to lift a finger to deal with any of their comments ever again.

And we all know who the real victim in all this is:

Andrew Breitbart.

Gulliver -

Would suggesting the addition of a "strangle button" and using the term "right wing trolls" be an example of "walking up to the CoH line and *mooning people*? In other words...."understanding the CoH with your head and not your heart"?

Or would it be an example of "the letter of the CoH, rather than the spirit"?

Prophat

Thank you for this! You are not alone. Just yesterday I was deleted twice on the same seed. The seeder wrote in his/her first post....I think they should repeal the entire law. I asked had they read it and they said they thought I was possibly off topic, asked had I read th article, and then told me what the topic of the article was and then asked me a question. Being that my initial questions was not addressed, I felt the combination of their being condescending and redirecting was so typical, I stated it was what I expected. I was deleted.

Later they told me that they were keeping with the CoH. I responded by quoting a part of it and that too was deleted.

I tried to contact Tyler or someone most of yesterday and not a single word in response. I see he is going to look into yours and if you read this, would you kindly ask him to look into my complaint as well? I mean even if I was wrong I would love to know why AND that at least someone bothered to respond. I sent something like five maybe more emails. I thought I was perhaps doing something wrong as I had never been deleted so I thought maybe I missed the steps. From what you wrote, they seem either overwhelmed or something I can't comprehend. Thanks!

Obviously, it is not an ideal response to go deleting someone's comment when you find yourself wishing that you could just strangle them instead

I'm turning over a New Leaf as of today. It will be the rarest of comments that I ever delete in the future, and if Tyler leaves my ability to take away comments removed permanentlty, I probably won't even notice.

I'm not that familiar with prophat's work on Newsvine. Can't say whether or not he is a right wing troll. Let's just say that he isn't.

In any case, I have been rightly disciplined for heavy handed use of the "delete button." I guess at the time I was feeling frustrated with prophat's relentless comments. I kind of felt like grabbing him and shaking him, or reaching for that imaginary "strangle button."

I am sorry for the pain I have caused you prophat. I am sorry for the inconvenience that I caused you to cause other people in your quest to vindicate you good reputation here on Newsvine.

And I am sorry for anything I said regarding the real victim in all of this:

Andrew Breitbart.

There are plenty of other people that have agreed with me - including many other liberals. Hell a liberal wrote a big article on Newsvine about the very fact that he thought conservatives were not treated fairly

Prophat247,

I've seen a few political liberals argue that they are the ones who aren't treated fairly, that liberals get hit harder and conservatives are given a wider birth because the moderators don't want to appear biased, and end up going too far in the other direction to compensate.

Saying something is true doesn't make it so.

You understand that (that I wasn't being disrespectful) right?

I believe that accusing people of not doing their job is disrespectful, and accusing them of being biased is offensive. But if you say that's not what you're doing, then I'll accept that. I can't really argue over what is in someone else's mind.

Part of me wonders if PigeonReport wouldn't have gone off the deep-end with his post would Tyler have even seen this article?

He shows up on meta stories fairly often, but I don't know if he came here because of all the complaints against PR, or because he was monitoring not-news. I do know that collapsed comments get his attention about as well as anything. I think a comment being collapsed raises a red flag in a literal sense, something that directly draws their attention. It was probably that, but who knows.

I do know that you're not going to get their time of day just because you want it. None of us do. I'd guess that maybe 30% of my complaints get a response, and it has been like that since day one. Just gotta accept it.

Well, I have asked Newsvine to not bother restoring my ability to delete comments. Can't say it is a privilege I will miss. It's more of a liability.

Because to tell the truth, I still think Prophat's comments were worthy of deletion. He kept asking me over and over again why I thought Weiner should "come after" Breibart, but it was Breitbart who first used the phrase "come after" as in "I am holding onto the last picture in case Weiner decides to come after me." All I was doing was referencing Breibart's own phrase. Breitbart released the last picture within 48 houors, does that mean there is no longer any reason for Weiner to not come after Breitbart? Breitbart is the one who put the idea of Weiner "coming after" Breitbart, not me.

Prophat just keeps repating the same points over and over in longer and longer comments, taking up all the air in a thread.

If the delete button isn't for just such situations, then I certainly don't need one.

Prophat just keeps repating the same points over and over in longer and longer comments, taking up all the air in a thread.

Assuming this is the case, what part of the CoH did he violate? Or are you advocating that we should all have the right to delete comments we find personally annoying? If that's the case, just how many comments do you believe would remain standing in threads?

Well, I have asked Newsvine to not bother restoring my ability to delete comments. Can't say it is a privilege I will miss. It's more of a liability.

Gulliver's Island,

That's not really going to fly either. It's your responsibility to moderate your column, which includes deleting comments that violate the Code of Honor. If you can't or won't do that, you're going to lose a lot more than the ability to delete comments. You won't be able to seed or write stories at all.

Just relax a bit, and consider asking yourself a few simple questions when you see a questionable comment.

Is it addressing an issue/argument, or a person?
Calling a comment or statement a lie is addressing the argument. Calling a person a liar is attacking the person. The first is fine, although provocative, while the second is a COH1 violation.

Is it on topic?
There is a fair bit of play here, meaning that what's off-topic in one person's opinion may be related in another's. You want to gently guide people in the right direction with warnings and suggestions and only go after the truly obvious derails. If the seed is about a new poll showing Sarah Palin's favorable ratings are down, comments about the Supreme Court are going be off-topic. Comments about what caused those favorable ratings to change, perhaps even going as far back to her tenure as Governor of Alaska, are probably fair.

If you aren't dead certain, step in and talk to the person or people you think are heading off the trail. Remind them that the topic is X, not Y, and tell them to get back on topic.

If you're like me and like engaging your readers in debate, make sure you don't mix moderation with debate. Don't argue with someone that what they said is dumb/not true, and then also drop in "by the way that's off-topic".

I have some rules for off-topic comments on my column that you might find excessive, but if you use them, I think you'll find them extremely useful.

If a comment is wildly off-topic, where it is depends on what I do with it. You can reply to a comment on Newsvine and in some cases it'll appear kind of set off to the right side a little bit. Those are replies. Comments aligned all the way to the left (like #1, or #3) are what I call "threads" or original/primary comments.

Because primary comments usually start a separate and unique discussion that can go on for days with dozens if not hundreds of replies, they get the strictest scrutiny when it comes to being on-topic. A primary comment that is obviously off-topic will usually get deleted on my column without a warning, even if it has as many as 3-4 replies.

Why do I do that?

Off-topic primary comments tend to result in lots and lots of off-topic replies. They are weeds that left unchecked will grow and overwhelm the vine. (Is that a pun, more a metaphor? Perhaps a metapun?) I kill them without mercy or regret and they never get restored.

Replies get a little leeway, usually a warning. Sometimes two warnings if there's more than one person chatting back and forth about something they shouldn't be. A discussion is already going on and I don't want to kill the discussion, I want to get it moving in the right direction again. Lots of good can come from walking softly in the midst of dozens of reply comments, and a lot of bad can come from using a heavy stick.

If the seed or story in question has largely been abandoned by all but a handful of people, I'll let them go off-topic almost indefinitely. The reason we're supposed to keep the discussion on-topic is so that it'll be productive for everyone involved, which can mean hundreds of people if you include users who read, but don't comment. If 98% of the people have come and gone, then there's no harm in letting the few remaining people talk about pretty much anything they want. Theirs is the only discussion, so no need to mess with it unless it's getting ugly.

If you consider some or all of that, and put it to use, I don't think you'll have problems deleting comments in the future. But you do need to delete them. You have to keep your column clean or it'll become a cesspool that makes Newsvine a place that people want to leave, instead of a place people come to to Get Smarter.

Because to tell the truth, I still think Prophat's comments were worthy of deletion. He kept asking me over and over again why I thought Weiner should "come after" Breibart, but it was Breitbart who first used the phrase "come after"

Just because someone asks you a question persistently doesn't mean you're obligated to answer. Tell them that, and move on.

Prophat just keeps repating the same points over and over in longer and longer comments, taking up all the air in a thread.

So long as the comments aren't copy/pastes of each other and he's discussing the topic at hand, he's entitled to do that. We all are. If other people aren't capable of, or interested in, debating him on that level, then that doesn't mean he's doing something wrong.

Some people do tend to suck up all the air in the room. That's just life.

If the delete button isn't for just such situations, then I certainly don't need one.

You need one for when user A calls user B a cock sucking @!$%#. You need one for when user A starts talking about government mind control on a seed about global warming. You need one for when run across people trying to sell boots and clothes at 3am.

You're contributing to the degradation of this site if you don't deal with that stuff.

Look at this article and thread. It is a lengthy sprawling monument to one user's sense of victim-hood and entitlement.

So if you are interested in a slap fight, look elsewhere.

I'm not going to turn this into a petty little slap fight

Funny that you've used that phrase twice.

I don't do slap fights. Slap fights are something sissies do (before running home to mama).

What exactly was your reason for deleting my comment? It didn't even mention you and was a response to someone else.

gulliver

your harassing of prophat on this is completely out of line and in my opinion shows just how wrong and guilty you are.

I would suggest you move on....

James, I think you have incomplete information.

you are on his seed.

I have enough information.

If you are going to call my participation on this seed harassment, I would like to point out that this entire seed is an exercise in harassing me. This seed should have been pulled down at the outset by Newsvine management. Funny how that never occurred to anyone.

If you are going to call my participation on this seed harassment, I would like to point out that this entire seed is an exercise in harassing me.

How do you figure? I didn't see your name mentioned anywhere in this article and had no idea it was about you until YOU piped in with something akin to: "Hey! Lookie everyone! This is about me, me, me!!!"

pat n

no @!$%#.....I had no idea it was gulliver. he shouts at the top of his lungs its him then continues to harrass prophat. Its obvious he has a problem with him....gulliver is probably just jealous that prophat is obviously a better viner than he...with much better writing skills to boot.

quite sad really.

James -

Bingo.

The whole victim mentality thing that seems pervasive in our society really grinds my gears. I mean, can someone please explain the logic and common sense behind:

"This is an article that doesn't mention me...so I'm going to tell everyone it's really about me, and then I'm going to claim that it's harassment, even though I'm the one who exposed myself!" Seriously...WTF?

#1.48 flagged. Mind #1 of the Newsvine Code of Honor, northern girl:

Above all else, respect others. Address issues and arguments and refrain from making personal attacks.

I think you've been on Newsvine long enough to know better than to do something like that. It adds nothing to the debate and only serves to drag it into the gutter.

You're right PWT. I meant it more as an excuse for complaining that this article is about him, not as an attack. Had he not said anything, I would have never known what happened between him and Prophat and why he thinks this is about him. However, looking at my comment from a different point of view, I can see how it was misconstrued as a personal attack. I should have worded it better.